The EU Defence Force

I have not blogged for a wee while.
Of late my private life has been forced to the fore and I have had a miriad of issues to deal with sadly.

But at last the light at the end of the tunnel is starting to be seen and hopefully normal service will be resumed soon.

However as the cuts from the coalition start to bite and the truth of them starts to be seen I am starting to find myself becoming angered and pained.

Indeed the deficit we currently hold thats to the financial ineptitude of Brown, Blair and Balls is IMHO worthy of a trip into court, the actions of the Coalition in certain areas is beyond belief.

I am of the opinion certain areas of the cuts are being done in order for the coalition to "suck up" to the Europhiles and indeed despite "Call me Dave's" retoric his agenda is becoming clearer.



These deep cuts in manpower go way beyond saving money. If we were that desperate – and we are – we could cut foreign aid, we could cut the EU "contribution", we could clamp down really hard on benefit tourism, and much, much more.

All that would more than make up for the cost of keeping our minimal armed forces together. What you don't do is take out irreplaceable core capabilities, not even as a very last resort.

But that isn't what it's about. We are seeing here structural cuts which remove that UK's ability to act independently as a nation, and to project our foreign policy. We have moved from independence to a transitional stage where our capabilities have been removed and there is no replacement.

This is easy to see:-

With the arrival of the Lisbon Treaty certain Military Clauses came into effect.

Implications of the Treaty of Lisbon..........
The entry into force of the Treaty of Lisbon triggered member states of the Western European Union (WEU) to scrap the organisation, which had largely become dormant, but they have kept the mutual defence clause of the Treaty of Brussels as a basis for a possible EU mutual defence arrangement.

The Treaty of Lisbon also states that:

“ The common security and defence policy shall include the progressive framing of a common defence policy. This will lead to a common defence, when the European Council, acting unanimously, so decides. (TEU, Article 42)”

Soon – as has has been hinted - the real agenda will increasingly emerge: "We will be moving into an era of sharing capabilities with our European allies. The days of being able to do everything are long gone."

On 20 February 2009 the European Parliament voted in favour of the creation of Synchronized Armed Forces Europe (SAFE) as a first step towards a true European military force.

Basically the errosion of the UK military and the arrival of The Synchronized Armed Forces Europe (SAFE). This is a concept for an ever closer synchronization of the European forces under the Common Security and Defence Policy.


Our nation is standing blindfold at the edge of an open grave, its hands bound with a pistol at its head called European integration. Yet, even as our ruling classes seek to destroy the last vestiges British independence, the media slumbers on, never mentioning that elephant in the room.




With Thanks

Lord Hesketh Quits.........................who you say !!!

The two Royal navy carriers are a controversial subject, conceived as a jobs for the boys in the Rosyth yard (his house is in the next village along) after Gordon Brown came face to face with the fact that people knew he'd skimped on the military budget.

It was set up as a potential vote winner (and it worked) Willie Rennie the sitting Lib Dem was out on his ear and Thomas Docherty a Labour stooge from down south with no connection to Rosyth, Scotland, Dunfermline or surrounding area was triumphant at the polls.

It was also tied into Labours scorched earth policy as they knew that in England they were going to be hammered, so they spread the few goodies around their core areas and tied the contracts down with penalty clauses so the next government could not (legally) afford to get out of them.

The fiasco's got greater of course, turned out the carriers weren't going to get any planes for them till 2020 and that we were going to have to share them with the French.



Finally, Lord Hesketh, the guy second in charge of the project finally had enough and quit.

Source
The deputy chairman of Babcock, Lord Hesketh, has resigned after he called the Royal Navy's aircraft carrier programme a "disaster".
His resignation from the engineering group follows a report in the Daily Telegraph newspaper in which he was reported as saying the project would make the country a "laughing stock".
Babcock is building the carriers at its shipyard in Rosyth.
Earlier on Monday it issued a statement distancing itself from the report.
Last month's defence review revealed that £5.2bn would be spent on two new carriers
For three years there will be only one aircraft carrier, in any case, the planes being built for the vessels will not be ready until 2020.
Lord Hesketh's resignation takes place with immediate effect.
He has been non-executive deputy chairman of Babcock since 1996 and a non-executive director since 1993.

This whole story is a farce, a complete and utter disgrace, a level of insult to the tax payer beyond comprehension. It should serve as an example of Labour's competence to govern us for the next several decades (though how soon fools forget).

Not only are they going to be white elephants till 2020, they had to get rid of the various support ships necessary to protect them in order to be able to afford them.

Still Rosyth did well courtesy of Gordon Brown...after all his house ovelooks the yard.............but for that matter so does mine...........but at what cost long term??????

It's enough to make you weep the mess Labour has left this country in.
There is no other job/role in the world whereby you can screw up so badly, you can blatantly lie, steal and cheat............and walk away !!!!

Spot the Difference

No neither can I.

Willie Rennie MP............My local member of the 646 club and claimer of £450.00 quid food allowance.

(Yes I know its only £400.00 but gotta love him for trying)

Also note I was being nice with the joker picture............I had 1 of a c....no never mind.

He is a Lib Dem Defence Spokesman........ooops person gotta be PC here.

Well read this pile of pure shit and see what I mean.

I commented as you will see.........sorry once it goes through moderation but me thinks it might not.

Anyway I very politely (yes I am lying now) asked him to visit this link.

Typical cheap shot comment politician.
But he is a Lib Dem 3 placed politican and of the same class as Bob Ainsworth by the quality of his posting.
Poor, unresearched, weak, and not pertaining to the def spending issue at all.

He will be handed to the GOT and All Seeing Eye for a special award.

I await him blocking me now.

More Afghanistan Losses and More Labour Lies

Please Just visit Subrosas page

Click Here..

Nothing more needs said!!!!!!!!!!!

Except I bloody well will !



Brown - The only person who benefitted your trip to Afghanistan was you.
The squaddies will do what they are told, remember that!

However when they are in places like Selly Oak, they do what there feeling inside tell them.................not the C.O.....see Here.

Oh and 1 other thing shithead............if I may quote the Daily Telegraph ....."For the first time in modern history, the Government has raided the budget of the Ministry of Defence to fund a continuing military operation".

However had you not shown complete contempt for our armed forces this decision would not have been necessary if you had not, against all advice, cut £1.4bn from the helicopter programme in 2004.

Sleep well !!!

Defence Spending

Minister: I’ve had another good idea.

Official: Really Minister? Another one… that’s your fourth this week. We’re struggling to keep up with this torrent of wisdom. Dare I ask what this one involves?

Minister: Well, I had given some thought to preparing a proper defence review, like we did in 1998, that could weigh up our foreign policy priorities and try to match some capabilities to them….

Official: But…?

Minister: But, I decided that was all bollocks, so I thought I’d announce something completely disconnected to confuse the enemy…

Official: To confuse the enemy, minister?

Minister: Well, if it looks like we don’t know which end of the bat to hold, the enemy will be sure to disintegrate into panic and low morale!

Official: Yes, Minister…

Another day, and another large defence announcement. It’s not that I’m cynical about these announcements now, but they produce a Malcolm Tucker-ish response in my kitchen (often when listening to Radio 5).

It’s often the authoritative tone with which these announcements are delivered. And yes I am referring to the shit Quentin Davies and his Tory select committee member James Arbuthnott both on Radio 5 last evening.
It makes it sound like there is a plan – and I’m just not sure that’s true.

However little gem is the purchase of 22 new Chinook helicopters (and please God, let them have bought the ones with the up-to-date avionics, so that there is a fighting chance that they can be used. And please, Father Christmas, can you grant me the festive wish, that some twit hasn’t decided to try and bolt some bits on in Britain to please some sour faced constituency MP about to lose his or her bell tower in an end of expenses electoral shocker) in exchange for the Harriers at Cottesmore and a squadron of Tornados.

Now, the helicopters are needed. No question about it. Sooner than 2013 would be nice (could we not lease them sooner?) because we might not have the money to continue fighting in Afghanistan nor Iraq come 2013, but forgive me when I say did a certain US President not commit a withdrawl by then, are we to remain on our own?, and could we not have a defence review to decide exactly what it is we are doing in the whole defence/security realm? Just a little one?

Because, we can debate endlessly the timeless classics of British defence:

* East of Suez

* The Special Relationship

* Nukes or no nukes

* Our special role as maritime power

* Europeanization

We can debate them. And I’m sure we will. But what I think would be nice is if the UK could adopt a set of hard and fast preferences – things which will remain stable for 30-50years. And within these preferences there will be, of course, policies and events that test the stability of the preference. But we are without preferences at the moment. We want to be transatlantic, but we want to be European… we want to be a bridge between the two. And a naval power, and a humanitarian force.. oh, and a provider of aid, ooo, and a nuclear power, but not one that would ever use them, oh, and we’d like to do it cheaply please. Yesterday.

According to Pugh/Augustine curve projections there will be no navy by 2040. Because the costs will be too high to sustain it. Tinkering around the edges of the defence budget, and defence provision just simply no longer cuts the mustard. We have to come up with some stable preferences – that genuinely reflect our abilities and the size of our wallet – and we need to stick to them. I would say ‘bye-bye carriers’, but I’d have a swift pound that BAE will have made the government promise to give them £30bn quid for work in lieu.

Give me f*****g strength........


H/T to Rob Dover

Cuts showing in Business

Whats the official statement???

You know............everytime we re-patriate a serviceman back to the Uk??

Everytime a family member dares to say that the death was avoidable we need more equipment for the troops.





The statement is "The Government is doing everything in its power tospeed up the procurement of equipment for our armed Forces"......or words to that effect.

On the plus side you would have thought that a war regardless of its motives would have a positive effect for certain industries.......................WELL NO.

Today it was announced that the Defence group Qinetiq will fall short of its earlier profit expectations, blaming delays to large contracts from the UK government and continued uncertainty over US policy in Afghanistan.

Well you can read a bit more Here in the FT.

Kind of shows that all the cack that spouts from The 1 eyed mentallist and Bob the Knob Ainsworth about "doing all they can" to be just that...........spouted cack.



In the words of the great Malcolm Tucker ..............Gordon "fuckity bye"

General Lord Guthrie of Craigiebank....another stinging article

Yesterday in the Times Lord Guthrie wrote an article.

Lord Guthrie was probably the best Chief of the Defence Staff to ever oversee British armed forces. See Here.

His attack in the paper was savage.
He wrote.........substantial budget waste. He said the “insufficient needs” in Afghanistan was explained by the size and structure of the MoD, he argues with 87,000 civilian staff employed for 175, 000 servicemen

“At the head of this unwieldy edifice are six ministers, each enjoying a private office and their own staff - six private empires, with their own turf to be jealously guarded. Sadly, bigger does not mean more efficient; usually quite the opposite.”

He highlighted the lack of military experience among civil servants who were “parachuted in to lead this complex department with little idea of how it works”. Few high calibre people existed in a “dumbed down” Civil Service.

He reserves his venom for the numerous “special advisers” who have dominated government “who confuse the chain of command and wield huge power in unscrupulous ways”.

“Yet ministers are sometimes more comfortable with these inexperienced young people than with senior staff,”.

Instead of being strident ministers are “frozen with indecision” and terrified of making mistakes that leads to delay and “insurmountable financial problems”.

He was critical too of Whitehall’s failure to recognise that “Britain is at war” with politicians believing it was “another day of awkward things happening in far away places”.

The conflicts are only seen as “inconvenient blips” that had to be “muddled through until things return to normal”.

In his still unpublished report Bernard Gray, commissioned to examine MoD profligacy, says that “political fudge” in the MoD has been responsible for more than £35 billion wasted in equipment projects that are constantly delayed.

The full and complete article is here. Get a coffee and have a read.......superb!!

Politicians ordered the Army into Iraq and Afghanistan, but they did not give soldiers the wherewithal to succeed. Gordon Brown writes about courage, and can be eloquent and sincere when expressing sympathy for bereaved Service families, but words are not enough.

Gray Report Leaked

Remember Channel 4 news reported that the government had blocked the publication of the Gray report.

This report was carried out by Bernard Gray, a leading businessman and former special adviser to Labour defence ministers, and was all about MOD spending.

Well channel 4 said it was bad and well guess what it is horrendous.
The Times has a leaked copy of the report.

The Times describes it as A DEVASTATING official report suppressed by ministers has revealed that soldiers’ lives are being put at risk by “endemic” failures at the Ministry of Defence (MoD).

The secret dossier blames “political fudge” and Whitehall incompetence for the plight of soldiers in Afghanistan who are provided with inadequate frontline kit.

The 296-page report, leaked to The Sunday Times, claims the scale of MoD bungling is so severe it “is harming our ability . . . to conduct difficult current operations”.

The publication of the document will be a severe embarrassment for Gordon Brown, who has insisted that the armed forces always receive the equipment they need.

The report was commissioned by John Hutton, who resigned as defence secretary in June, and was due to have been published last month. However, Hutton’s successor Bob Ainsworth, backed by the prime minister, decided to bury it after ministers were plunged into a damaging row with General Sir Richard Dannatt, the recently retired army chief, over equipment shortages.

Although all nearly 300 pages are not published themselves this article gets the full treatment in the Times.

See Here and here.

I will leave you to read the links yourselves but the tone of the wording is used shows further weapons grade failings in our PM, our Governmnet, Ainsworth and his predecesors and the MOD as a whole. Makes me actually have a little sympathy for John Hutton.

Words fail me right now!!!!

Anyone for a wee wager on the next smear campaign then??????

You have lost how much?????

This is an amazing story for all the wrong reasons.

It shows complete and utter "words can not describe" incompetance.
And who is the big boss........the one the only Bob Ainsworth.

It transpires today that nearly £7 billion of military equipment has gone missing from Ministry of Defence.

Un-bloody-believable............or actually given the man at the top yes very believable.

The National Audit Office has refused to sign off on MoD records that £6.6 billion of assets exist because of “inadequate levels of evidence”.

The assets include about a sixth of all vehicles, weapons and radios used by British forces and are equivalent in value to the entire annual defence equipment budget.
Please note that last sentance.

The items in question include £1.25 billion of equipment deployed with British forces, such as machine guns, night vision goggles, encrypted radios and body armour.

Defence officials were unable to account for £350 million worth of fighting vehicles that were in theory being used for training and operations.

The remaining £5 billion of assets that could not be accounted for were predominantly raw materials and spare parts, ranging from bolts and oil to jet engines and propellers.

Are we not currently in a war with the constant stories from families of the fallen, injured servicemen and women, military chiefs bith serving and retired that the above equipment is needed in theatre but nothing is forthcoming. Shortages of equipment, including night vision goggles and radios, have been blamed for the deaths of several British service personnel.

Well apparently it is about but can not be accounted for, well a good chunk of it anyway.
The MoD insisted last night that the equipment was “never physically lost” and that the NAO figure was an “extrapolation” from its audit.

It said that at the time of the report, the Defence Storage and Distribution Agency, which is responsible for supplying the armed forces, was unable to satisfy the NAO’s demand for paperwork to verify the assets.

Utter cobblers.
I have blogged on the complete incompetance of the MOD method of procurement before. See here.
This is another blatant example of a government deparment completely out of touch with reality.
Having to spin lines like - the NAO figure was an “extrapolation” from its audit, just goes to prove my point.

So come on Bob........bust a gut and sort this one out!!!!!

Marine Ben McBean

In another example of scandalous government policy it has transpired that a young Marine is fighting to have his compensation increased as a result of injury he received in Afghanistan.

Marine Ben McBean, of 40 Commando Royal Marines, lost an arm and a leg in a landmine explosion while on routine patrol in Helmand Province in February last year.

He also suffered multiple shrapnel wounds and burns that have scarred his body.

The Ministry of Defence had offered the 22-year-old compensation for only eight of his injuries - and for six of those he was awarded the minimum tariff.

He was initially awarded £161,500, but this was raised to £281,150 after a public outcry.

Now lets put this into perspective shall we.

£281,151.00 for that level of injury.
And that after the public got involved.
6 of the injuries he received got him MINIMUM payout..........MINIMUM.
Legal experts believe a civilian court would have awarded him more than £1m if he suffered the same injuries.

Recent civil cases brought against the MoD have resulted in much bigger payouts including £2m for an Iraqi teenager paralysed by a British bullet and £484,000 for an RAF typist who suffered repetitive strain injury. Nearly twice what Ben received........TWICE.

Marine McBean's lawyer is expected to argue that the MoD only looked at his injuries individually and did not take into account the disabling affect of the sum total, nor the potential for deterioration over time.

The Royal British Legion is representing Marine McBean at his appeal at a tribunal at Plymouth Magistrates' Court.

It said there is a need for MoD payouts to be "interpreted in a spirit of gratitude and generosity, not with an anxious eye to the Treasury".

The charity's director general Chris Simpkins said: "It is terribly sad that this brave young Royal Marine should feel dissatisfied with his compensation for injuries incurred in selfless service to his country.

"We're going to do our best for Marine McBean, but we need to be realistic - the appeal tribunal's decision will be limited by the Armed Forces' Compensation Scheme and we believe this scheme is unfair."

Under the MoD's existing compensation scheme, lump sum payments for the most serious injuries are capped at £570,000, although the scheme is being reviewed.

I am stunned by this story...............I can not get my head around his award and the award to the typist.

Brown.......Ainsworth.......how the hell do you actually sleep at night......HOW?


Ben initially came to the fore as he was returned to the UK on the same flight as Prince Harry.

Afghanistan and Equipment........it wont go away!

Brown is wrong on Afghan equipment, says former Helmand commander
Brigadier Ed Butler, the former commander of UK troops in Helmand, says British troops in Afghanistan do not have enough resources.

Article here

"I was the commander of British forces in 2006 and I made the case very clearly then that we had, only just about, enough resources to do what would be seen as a very steady state task."

But he said he warned at the time that if it developed into a counter-insurgency operation "then we would require more helicopters, more intelligence and more boots on the ground".

His remarks came as Number 10 desperately tried to limit the damage caused by the intervention in yesterday's Daily Telegraph of Lord Malloch-Brown, the out-going Foreign Office Minister. He became the first minister to openly question the support being given to the British effort in Afghanistan when he said: "We definitely dont have enough helicopters."

Well it is now a counter insugency operation.
We are taking it back to the Taliban.

And the politicians (before they get leaned on), military commanders past and present, families of the fallen and wounded are saying the same thing............NOT ENOUGH EQUIPMENT FOR THE TASK IN HAND.

I also read in the article with interest, that the threat to the UK comes in the form of exported terrorism, not from Afghanistan, but Somalia and Pakistan.

This is in stark opposition to toilet breaths (the PM) comments in his monthly press conference on Weds when challenged on his colleague's observation. He maintained that the Afghanistan campaign was vital to halt terrorists before they came to Britain. Apparently he got a bit hot under the collar. No doubt another nokia died back at the bunker.

Odd Fact......is it a coincidence

Ok we know we are in a bit of hole money wise in the UK.

Especially when we read things like this.

Spending cuts now recognised to be a definate no matter who is in the hot seat in a years time.

And despite the horse keek regurgitated by the PM in PMQ's when sparring with "Call me Dave" no one believes him.

But when we look at corporation tax losses due to failed comapnies, more people out of work, reduced taxation incomes due to slow sales we see that taxation blackhole as reported in the times.

But does anyone realise how big that number is or what it actually compares too?

Well currently that number is 90% of our 2009/2010 defence budget.

The Defence Budget

£million 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11
Resource Budget 32,618 33,602 35,165 36,702
Capital Budget 7,404 7,871 8,187 8,871
Total Departm (DEL) 32,579 34,057 35,365 36,890
Of which near cash 29,411 30,763 31,921 33,628

So is that not a good idea to get the boys to come home????
Or am I being to simplistic??????

UPDATE: so as not to take any more stupid emails yes I am aware that the defence budget is not ALL being spent in Afghanistan. Good god.

Another Chinook Mess

The subject of equipment in Afghanistan and in particular has been the subject of many blogs and many news stories.
Politicians, military chiefs have all been saying many many things.

I was to say this least a little sceptical of John Huttons delivered words to the Sunday papers yesterday. It smacked more of someone with a grudge rather that a political messgae. Bit of dollies out of the pram so to speak.

However I have blogged before about helicopters and in a proevious post made mention to 422 Million pounds worth of hardware that was bought in 2001. This hardware was 8 Mk3 Chinook helicopters that sat idle for 8 years due to a major purchasing cock-up and the basic fact that when it comes to defence spending the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing.
I for 1 was pleased when I heard we had increased the numbers of helicopters in theatre and found the 60% figure impressive.......hahaha....note the tone of my blog there.
Yes we know 60% of bugger all is bugger all.

But I thought great those 8 have been sorted and are now in action.

But oh no.........how wrong was I.

The Mark3 Chinooks were designed to carry members of special forces and were equipped with the sophisticated technology. However the Ministry of Defence then discovered that this was incompatible with systems in place in the UK and were thus forced to downgrade the specifications in the aircraft while other Western countries were upgrading theirs.

The helicopters, which had already cost the taxpayer an estimated 422m, are now going through the costly and time consuming work at Boscombe Down near Salisbury. Three will be ready to be used later this year, but there will be delay of almost 18 months before the remainder become airworthy.


So we spend 422 miliion.
We leave then rotting for 8 years.
Then when we need them it takes another shit load of redtape and another 18 months to get them airworthy.
The thing is we took delivery at the start of the conflict, and NO ONE thought "hey best get this sorted, we might need these.

Un-bloody-believable

Unbelievable

Fresh from the recent debates on equipment in Afghanistan comes this little gem of a story.

Gen Dannatt is on his last tour of Afghanistan.

He has not been as vocal about the spending row as others but indeed has had a certain behind closed doors meeting with several high ranking tories. That is for another post.

But the issue I wish to point here, is the fact, that just the back end of last week and the start of this week, is that during Dannatt's visit, he had to use a US Army Blackhawk helicopter to do his tour.

OMG

In the face of all that has gone on this week. All the debate, the spin, the lies, the 60% increase...............we find our army chief has to borrow equipment from the Americans.

And now summer recess in the commons so no debate !!!!

UPDATE:- When asked about his travel arrangements, Gen Dannatt replied: “Self-evidently... if I moved in an American helicopter it’s because I haven’t got a British helicopter.”

Full Story Here

Charles Ronald Llewelyn Guthrie, Baron Guthrie of Craigiebank

General Guthrie was Chief of the Defence staff.

He was also until the arrival of Mike Jackson probably the most effective CDS we ever had.

I feel when someone of this mans calibre (excuse the pun) is forced into having to go via The Daily Mail to make a point quite clearly the powers that be are failing to look at the problem head on and are doing an ostrich syndrome.

He is also famous for his previous clash with a certain Gordon Brown when he was chancellor for not only defence spending but the now PM's lack of adhearing to the Military Covenant.

The covenant a term recently used mainly by the British armed forces and the media in relation to the question of adequate safeguards, rewards and compensation for military personnel who risk their lives in obedience to military orders derived from the policy of the elected civilian government. It is argued that armed forces personnel should expect to be treated fairly by the Crown and expect the support of the nation, society and the government.

Quite clearly when given poor equipment, get lied to, have Bob Ainsworth appointed, get funding with held, get abused by the locals when marching through their own town and have soilders who risk their lives with a union flag on their uniform (ie Ghurkas) having to go through the hoops tey did, then of course the covenant is being ignored.

A glass of Pinot Grigio to Subrosa for pointing out Lord Guthrie.

Shipyards to Close

I have blogged on the topic of defence cuts.

Many others in the blogosphere have done the same.
Gordon Brown is potentially doing a U-turn on Trident.

The Army and the Navy are fighting amongst themselves.

But at the end of the day its the troops that suffer due to the Gordon Browns complete mis management of the countries finances and also his complete lack of credability as a P.M.

But finally a leaked memo surfaces.

Govan and Scotstoun yards could close within decade as Ministry of Defence prepares to scale down UK capacity for building warships

The long-term future of two British shipyards was today thrown into doubt after a leaked memo reportedly revealed plans which could see them close them within a decade.

Reports claim the memo was sent from the chief executive of the Govan and Scotstoun yards, in Glasgow, to senior executives at owners BVT Surface Fleet, which also has an operation in Portsmouth, Hampshire.

The memo is reported to reveal that the Ministry of Defence is willing to finance redundancies in order to scale down Britain's capacity for building warships.

It is also said to show the BVT Surface Fleet chief executive, Alan Johnston, forecasting savings of up to £0.5bn from the closure of two out of the three yards after the contract for two aircraft carriers ends in 2014.

A BVT spokesman said he could "not deny" that a memo existed, but added that the company was not expecting to close any facilities in the "foreseeable" future.

"As a business, we plan for all sorts of scenarios, both good and bad," he added.

"BVT Surface Fleet has a solid order book for the next seven to eight years and is in the strongest position that the shipbuilding industry in the UK has seen for a generation.

"As part of its prudent long-term planning, it considers a broad range of options, including worst case scenario planning.

"However, it is also planning for and confident in an extremely positive outlook."

A spokesman for the Ministry of Defence said it had "been in discussion with the shipbuilding industry over the opportunities for long-term partnering arrangements which incentivise industry to drive down costs".

"Negotiations with industry partners are still ongoing and no decisions have been taken," the spokesman added. "Therefore, it would be inappropriate to comment further."

Tavish Scott, the leader of the Scottish Liberal Democrats, called on the government to "immediately end the uncertainty surrounding the future of naval shipyards on the Clyde".

"They cannot leave hard working men and woman high and dry without knowing their future," he said.

"The government must make an urgent statement on this potentially devastating news for Scotland."

Nicola Sturgeon, the MSP for Govan and Scotland's deputy first minister, said: "These reports will cause deep concern among the workforce and communities on the Clyde.

"I will be contacting BVT to demand assurances over their commitment to the Clyde yards and the long term future of Scotland's shipbuilding expertise."

BVT Surface Fleet, which was created in early 2008, brings together the surface warship building operations of BAE Systems and the VT Group, including their joint venture, Fleet Support Limited.



Its is our defence, our protection, and the lives of our service people who are at risk.
Coupled with the 1000's of employees who work supporting the various arms of the defence industry.

Again the lies the spin, the party of the people, the party of improving services, the party best to lead us out of the recession again shows it utter contempt for the UK as a whole.